JW's, Can you explain to me why the Holy Spirit is an Active Force instead of a 3rd person in a trinity?

i would like as much info as i can about the holy spirit, thanks.

Answer:

Consider the virgin birth of Christ. If the holy spirit is a person, the third person of the Trinitarian Godhead, then a person is responsible for Mary's pregnancy. Period. (Or in Mary's case, no period.)

Thus, it sure sounds like Trinitarianism unwittingly teaches that God had sex with Mary. It looks like a sexual union of an alien person with a human female, giving the holy spirit the role of an incubus.

If Trinitarianism responds saying that the Holy Spirit Person of God (God the Holy Spirit) used power to make Mary pregnant, then how is that any different from the holy spirit being a spiritual energy, an active force from God fulfilling God's purposes?

But there is something else to ponder. If the third person of the Godhead, the holy spirit, begot Jesus, then why is the first person of the Godhead, the Father, the father? Should it not logically be the holy spirit person? That it's not Jesus' father is another devastating yet ignored dilemma for Trinitarianism.

============
Edit:
2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now Jehovah is the Spirit." Since Jehovah is the Father, who per Trinitarianism is the First Person of the Trinitarian Godhead, this does nothing to address the Holy Spirit person. It is clearly teaching that the Father Jehovah has spirit nature. So Trinitarianism must desist from misusing this scripture like it does address the Holy Spirit person when it most clearly does not.

In conclusion, the preponderance of scriptures makes the holy spirit impersonal. Other scriptures that have the holy spirit speaking are anthropomorphisms. Remember, if the holy spirit is a person, then:

1. The holy spirit filled the role of an incubus
2. Mary was not a virgin mother of Jesus
3. The holy spirit is Jesus' father, not the Father person

All three of these are anathema. Thus, we can be most thankful that the holy spirit is an 'active force.'

@ [name removed]. Thanks for asking. Trinitarianism teaches that a person got Mary pregnant. That it was a divine spirit person is irrelevant. The Trinitarian Holy Spirit acted like an incubus demon and simulated sexual intercourse with Mary, getting her pregnant. Thus, she could hardly be an honest virgin. Jesus replaces Adam as our father, and it is significant that Jesus never called the Holy Spirit his father, like he surely would have if Trinitarianism were true. Mary is only an honest virgin if the holy spirit is an impersonal utilitarian divine energy.

@ [name removed]: Trinitarianism teaches that the Holy Spirit person got Mary pregnant. What you're uncomfortable with are the unrealized implications of that doctrine. Mind you, I'm being objective as opposed to warped.

Source:
Holy Spirit and the Virgin Birth http://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2010/11/do-you-reject-trinitarianism-part-ii.html

LINK

Note: The iconographic depiction of the Trinidad trificela (three-faced Trinity) seen above fell into disuse after being outlawed as heterodox in the wake of the Reformation.

When Jesus said he would return did he stipulate it would be in the flesh ?

Best Answer

No, Jesus did not stipulate what body he would return in, much less in the flesh. He did indicate though that it would NOT be flesh at John 8:21-3 where he said that he came from a higher realm where people could not enter on their own.

Annsan_In_Him compared Acts 1:11 with 1 Corinthians 15, that we “do a mental replay in reverse” with Acts 1:11. Based on that, Jesus ascended with a physical body and was obscured by a cloud (Acts 1:9) and then he returns with a different body, a “'heavenly body'”. This is correct. But notice also that the apostles were not literally watching Christ’s journey all the way to heaven. Thus he must have entered the spirit heavens as a spirit being, as 1 Corinthians 15:45 says that Jesus “became a life-giving spirit,” invisible to human eyes. (1 Corinthians 15:50) So, at most, the apostles saw only the beginning of Jesus’ journey; they could not watch its ending, his return to the heavenly presence of his Father. (John 20:17) This they could only discern with their eyes of faith.

In fact, in harmony with John 8:21-3, Jesus said shortly before his death: “A little longer and the world will behold me no more.” (John 14:19) He also said that “the kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness.” (Luke 17:20) So he indicated his return would not be in the flesh.

However, Annsan_In_Him also said: “beware any translation that tries to use 1 Peter 3:18 to say Jesus was resurrected as a spirit.” Yet, the NET Bible, NASB, NRSV (main text and interlinear), NJB, and the ASV read “in the spirit,” and the Apostolic Bible Polyglot has the similar translation of “to the spirit.” So it is not just the NWT that has “in the spirit.” Thus that concern about the NWT has been deflated.

Additionally, the account at Luke 24:36-43 that she referred to actually proves that Jesus is a spirit as he appeared in the midst of people inside a locked room: thus he was materializing a human body from his spiritual existence.


Source:
Jesus’ Resurrection Body http://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2012/10/jesus-resurrection-body-this-blog-entry.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130620014508AA6nWjp

LINK

Jehovah's Witnesses, Does St. Paul agree with Christ' Physical Ressurection?

In 1 Timothy 1:20, the apostle Paul said he had handed Hymenaeus and Alexander over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme. The two blasphemers had been excluded from the church. Out in the world, away from the church, they would be open to the full force of the god of that worldly system. In 2 Timothy 2:17–18, we discover what these men did to warrant expulsion from the church: they had denounced the physical resurrection and were dividing the church by teaching an early form of the heresy of Gnosticism


2 Timothy 2:17–18 (ESV)
17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

Answer:

The expression “saying that the resurrection has already happened” is vague and firm definitions of what Hymenaeus and Philetus taught is frankly impossible as we do not have their versions of what they taught. Saying it was Gnostic is difficult to prove as Gnostics believed in a divine spark that was entombed in human flesh.[1] Thus when the flesh died the divine spark was liberated, not resurrected.

Evidently this was their teaching: that the resurrection was merely a spiritual one in the sense of being a **symbolic kind,** and that the dedicated Christians had **already had their resurrection,** that this was all there was to the matter and there was no further resurrection in the future under God’s Messianic Kingdom. Perhaps they were quoting out of context Paul’s statement that Christians had been dead in their sins but were made alive through God’s spirit. (Ephesians 2:1-6) Indeed, twisting Paul’s words to promote errant teaching was a problem in the first century as Peter testified at 2 Peter 3:15-16.

That Jesus was resurrected as a spirit is shown in 1 Corinthians 15:45, that plainly declares that Jesus was resurrected as a “life-giving spirit.” (NET Bible)

Concerning 1 Peter 3:15: If the NWT “has been deliberately altered” to say “in the spirit,” translating the Greek word DE as “in,” then to be consistent the Trinitarian NET Bible, NASB, NRSV (main text and interlinear), NJB, and the ASV have also been deliberately altered as it reads the same! (The Apostolic Bible Polyglot has the similar translation of "to the spirit".) Thus that accusation has gone up in a puff of smoke. The NET Bible in its footnote says in part that this verse is about “modes of existence: the realm of unregenerate earthly life versus eternal heavenly life.” Thus, the translation of “in the spirit” is both valid and harmonious with other scriptures, like 1 Corinthians 15:45 and Jesus' appearance to Paul on the road to Damascus at Acts 26:13. There, Jesus Christ radiated light "beyond the brilliance of the sun" at midday. Clearly then he was a transcendent spirit being and not a resurrected human in outer space micromanaging his flesh![2] Another scripture harmonious with “in the spirit” is Hebrews 5:7 as it places Jesus' being in the flesh in the past! Therefore when the resurrected Jesus said at Luke 24:39 that “a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have” he was speaking with a materialized body. It must be remembered that he appeared in their midst in a locked room, thus proving he was a spirit being materializing before them.

Thus the unanimous voice of Scripture clearly shows that Jesus is thankfully no longer in the flesh.

In conclusion, the heresy of Hymenaeus and Philetus is not the same as the Bible teaching of Jesus’ resurrection as a spirit being. Their teaching was more of a symbolic abstraction that denied the full force and reality of the resurrection.

Source:
[1] This is actually akin to the Trinitarian Jesus who was a divine person encased in his human nature flesh. Thus, Trinitarianism is clearly akin to the Gnostic heresy.

[2] According to Trinitarian Chalcedonian Dyophysitism, Jesus is now “truly man” “soul and body” in outer space lacking an astronaut suit and thus Jesus must eternally micromanage his flesh so it can survive! How absurd and insulting to Jesus Christ!

Additional reading:
Jesus’ Resurrection Body http://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2012/10/jesus-resurrection-body-this-blog-entry.html

Hebrews 5:7 and Trinitarianism: A Compatibility Crisis http://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2012/09/hebrews-57-and-trinitarianism_11.html

LINK