Trinitarianism teaches that "Jesus' two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person. Jesus' humanity and divinity are not mixed, but are united without loss of separate identity."
http://www.gotquestions.org/hypostatic-u…
But now Jesus is in heaven, outside of earth's atmosphere. How can he retain his human nature and keep it intact? He never had to before the incarnation. But now he has to maintain his human nature, sustaining it outside of earth's atmosphere, forever?
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@ Bar_enosh: Thank you for your response. I'd like to hear from Trinitarians too.
@ Carlito, hi and thank you for your response.
“Heaven,” God’s abode, is by definition outside of earth’s atmosphere. If it wasn’t, then God would be physically discernable and measurable, which he isn’t. Corroborating this is Psalms 57:5 and 11, which says: “Be exalted above the heavens, O God; Let Your glory be above all the earth.” (NASB) (See also Psalms 108:5 and 113:4, and Deuteronomy 10:14.) Thus, both reason and scripture lead one to conclude that God dwells outside of earth’s atmosphere.
I agree with you that “heaven” is “the spiritual dimension.” But that too is by definition outside of earth’s atmosphere.
Regarding human nature and the human body, the Hypostatic Union doctrine teaches that Jesus is the union of two hypostases, two substances, in one hypostasis or substance. It is a union of the human and divine hypostases. Trinitarianism teaches that Jesus retained his human body he acquired at his incarnation.
“Heaven,” God’s abode, is by definition outside of earth’s atmosphere. If it wasn’t, then God would be physically discernable and measurable, which he isn’t. Corroborating this is Psalms 57:5 and 11, which says: “Be exalted above the heavens, O God; Let Your glory be above all the earth.” (NASB) (See also Psalms 108:5 and 113:4, and Deuteronomy 10:14.) Thus, both reason and scripture lead one to conclude that God dwells outside of earth’s atmosphere.
I agree with you that “heaven” is “the spiritual dimension.” But that too is by definition outside of earth’s atmosphere.
Regarding human nature and the human body, the Hypostatic Union doctrine teaches that Jesus is the union of two hypostases, two substances, in one hypostasis or substance. It is a union of the human and divine hypostases. Trinitarianism teaches that Jesus retained his human body he acquired at his incarnation.
“The addition of the human nature to the divine nature is Jesus, the God-man. This is the hypostatic union, Jesus Christ, one Person, fully God and fully man.”[1] Additionally, one Trinitarian wrote that “Jesus is God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. That is, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human.”[2] Thus, Jesus’ human nature is declared to be human flesh.
The Trinitarian Jesus is the union of his human nature or body of his incarnation with his divine nature. To say that his human nature is not human would contradict Trinitarianism’s doctrine that Jesus is fully man. It would also be similar to the docetic heresy, that Jesus only appears to be human.[3]
This being said, my sincere question remains.
Footnotes:
[1] “What is the hypostatic union? How can Jesus be both God and man at the same time?” http://www.gotquestions.org/hypostatic-u…
The Trinitarian Jesus is the union of his human nature or body of his incarnation with his divine nature. To say that his human nature is not human would contradict Trinitarianism’s doctrine that Jesus is fully man. It would also be similar to the docetic heresy, that Jesus only appears to be human.[3]
This being said, my sincere question remains.
Footnotes:
[1] “What is the hypostatic union? How can Jesus be both God and man at the same time?” http://www.gotquestions.org/hypostatic-u…
[2] Slick, Matt. “The Trinity, the Hypostatic Union, and the Communicatio Idiomatum.” http://carm.org/christianity/christian-d…
[3] “Docetism” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docetism
[3] “Docetism” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docetism
"Docetic" in that Jesus retained a docetic human form. But that is anathema. He retained his incarnate human body according to the Trinitarian sources above. I agree it would make more sense if Trinitarianism would teach that Jesus is human experientially (human by experience only now), but it doesn't. It teaches that Jesus is fully human and fully divine, in hypostatic union.
@ Carlito
In addition to Psalms 57:5, 11, 108:5 and 113:4, and Deuteronomy 10:14, we have the Lord Jesus’ own description recorded at John 8:23: “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.” (NIV) Thus he said that his world, “heaven,” is “above” this world. We also have the accounts of an angel’s and Jesus’ ascension to heaven. (Judges 13:20; Acts 1:9) Lastly, there is the account in Revelation 12 where Satan and his angels are “thrown down to the earth.” (NASB) Since you said you favor heaven being “the spiritual dimension,” this could be illustrated by calling it “above” earth, as it would be a higher realm.
In addition to Psalms 57:5, 11, 108:5 and 113:4, and Deuteronomy 10:14, we have the Lord Jesus’ own description recorded at John 8:23: “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.” (NIV) Thus he said that his world, “heaven,” is “above” this world. We also have the accounts of an angel’s and Jesus’ ascension to heaven. (Judges 13:20; Acts 1:9) Lastly, there is the account in Revelation 12 where Satan and his angels are “thrown down to the earth.” (NASB) Since you said you favor heaven being “the spiritual dimension,” this could be illustrated by calling it “above” earth, as it would be a higher realm.
Where did your comment go Carlito? [He removed his comment, but I continued to reply to what I read him say.]
1 Corinthians 15:50 declares an axiomatic truth: “flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom.” (NWT) This applies to the laws of creation. The natural cannot exist in the supernatural.
Any teaching that leads to ridiculous conclusions has to be questioned. The Trinity teaching of the hypostatic union is one of these. It teaches that Jesus is now fully human in heaven, whereas before he was fully divine only. Trinitarians also say, correctly in this case, that God is transcendent. Here lies an apparent contradiction, for this leads to an impossible situation of something from “the below” (TWN KATW), his human body under the laws of physics, existing in “the above” (TWN ANW), the divine heavenly realm above the laws of physics (John 8:23), and a situation where Jesus now has to maintain his human body in this transcendent realm where by definition it cannot exist. This would make Jesus a fool for not discarding his human body, and since the Lord Jesus is not a fool, the hypostatic union is offensive to him. Trinitarian reasoning and exegesis then falls into question as a whole, as a much more reasonable exegesis exists, one that has a valid soteriology.
A point in conclusion: God can only create what is allowable by the laws of physics that he put in place. So, this is not about lack of faith in His ability to make a human-divine hypostatic union, but faith in His superior intelligence to not waste time and energy in something that His laws of physics will not support, in this case of having a human body in heaven.
LINK
Related blog post:
LINK
Related blog post:
- Trinitarianism and Docetism: Did the Person of Jesus Feel the Pain of His Ransom Sacrifice? http://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2015/04/trinitarianism-and-docetism-did-person.html
