Friday, February 20, 2015

Trinitarians, do you see the flawed reasoning of "I AM" in John 8:58?


Trinitarianism teaches that "I AM" is a divine name, and that it is used at John 8:58, where Jesus said according to many translations: "Before Abraham was, I am." As one apologetic Trinitarian explained:

"This is a very important verse to Trinitarians because it is one of the places we use to show that Jesus is God. We maintain that Jesus attributed the divine name of God ("I AM" from Exodus 3:14), to Himself."[1]

Now this claim can be easily tested by replacing "I AM" with another divine name or designation, like God, and observing the results.
[test]
"Before Abraham was, God."
[end of test]
This declaration as it stands is nonsensical. To make sense, it needs the words "I existed as" or "I was", or something similar: "Before Abraham was, I was God."

Does that make sense? If so, please continue reading.

The same is true with "Before Abraham was, I am." It needs more words to be complete, like "Before Abraham was, I was I AM." But, the Greek text does not say that. Therefore the Greek words 'ego eimi', translated according to many translations as "I am," are part of the sentence and should be translated likewise. "I am" is an interlinear translation or a hyper-literal translation, therefore not completing the translation process. If a Bible says something like "I have been,"[2] it shows an attempt to do just that, complete the translation process into a literal translation.

So can you see how flawed and ridiculous Trinitarian teaching is on John 8:58, regardless of its popularity?

Footnotes:
[1] Slick, Matt. John 8:58 and 10:30-33, "I am." http://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-858-and-1030-33-i-am

[2] The 1996 ed. New Living Translation has “Jesus answered, ‘The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!’” It places “I am” in a footnote. (Seen here.)

Another test in context:
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, Lord.

Best Answer
Asker's Choice

Ginosko92

The is probably one of the lamest "proof text" that trinitarians use to prove the divinity of Christ!

To make a connection between Ex 3:14 and John 8:58 is beyond ridiculous!

First of all the correct rendition of Ex 3:14 is "I will be what I will be" as the footnote in the NIV correctly states. Ex 3:12 uses the same verb "eh·yeh" and is translated "I will". I AM THAT I AM is not the correct meaning of the divine name, it's not static as if God were waiting to do something. But God is ALWAYS in action and maneuvering things according to his will.

Second the Greek LXX (septuagint) renders Ex 3:14 as "ego emi ho on" or "I am THE ONE or THE BEING". The same vs adds that "THE ONE or THE BEING", not "I am" as trinitarians lamely argue, "has sent you"!

So to connect Ex 3:14 with John 8:58 is pure fiction and desperation to prove a man made doctrine!

Asker's rating & comment

Thank you! I'm sorry to report that no Trinitarians addressed my question. The Trinitarian use of John 8:58 is alarmingly unsophisticated, as were the Trinitarian responses. If you think Trinitarianism uses John 8:58 correctly, then you need to study this question.

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